[Conquest] Dark Contract: Ogre and [Conquest] Dark Contract: Troll

i do see the problem in this with the future coming sieges and from what i saw i would still say that have 10 per guild with 3 active at the time is a reasonable number. It is at the same time challenging to defend or attack which makes u actually plan ur move. Having 3 of them per guild as the only limit would render them useless because u have traps/flametowers/elephants/gates and 100 players with 700 gs to kill them. If this happens we fall back to the time that only first rush with high GS zero management, zero strategy, no brain would win the fight. Which would kill the siege and then the server.
Also about the guild command as far as i heard u can spawn the Ogres/Trolls in castles, it was fixed. That option should not be there at all.

 

I don't agree with limiting ogres tbh, they should just have 1h cooldown for guild. This way you can use up to 4 of them, but you have to use brain while doing it and let guild protect it instead of going on a suicide mission rushing the base.

 

As mentioned from many/everyone above: The current state with the Ogres/Trolls is getting out of Hand. Now dont get me wrong, im fine with them beeing implemented and available. But for whats right now: they ruin the rest of what is left of the Siegecommuinty and/or Playerbase in general. Now you might say: "well then dont go for War" or "They are here so dont " etc. Well... the Point is (and i might overexagirate here a bit):

-Ogres/Trolls are meant to be a SUPPORTIVE Unit just like Guildmounts
-The Damage that the Ogres deal to any Structure/Fort is HUGE and they can Tank a Group of Players with around 290/300AP for around 60seconds upwards.

Now imagine: You and your Officers take the Time and Effort to delevop solid Strategies, you build up your Fort with tight Defenses and then after the Siege/Nodewar has startet you see around 5-6 Ogres just Steamrolling throughtout your Fort/Defenses, obliterate everything in theyr Path in less than a few seconds, while your Main Group is stuck in a Fight with the Enemy Guild at theyr Fort.

"Dont go on Attack then" i hear some of you say. Well.. there is the next Problem. If you think about the second Main Point: 1 Ogre can tank a Group of ~25-30 Players with around 300AP for 60 Seconds or more, (while crushing down your Gates, your Fences and maybe 1-2 Defensesystems), what do you think is a Group of Ogres capapble of? Dont forget that you also need to fend the other Guild/Guilds of, while at least half of your Guild is busy killing a Group of Ogres.

"Just Farm Ogres aswell". Haha, great Joke. The amount of Servers/Channels given makes it so, that 1 of the big Alliances camps the Spot 24/7 which makes it almost impossible for the opposite Alliance to get them aswell. And if there more Channels we would face more or less Ghost-Channels/Dead-Channels. (Which means that there are either no Players or this less pPayers, that you can go everywhere with 1 DP without the Risk of getting killed by others. Also this would be a far bigger amount of work with even less balancing effects of what the other Solutions in the voting above would be).

Now, from my Point of view the best overall Solution would be: reduce/cap the Amount of Ogres/Trolls and Guildmounts per Siege/Nodewar. Make them what they are meant to be: SUPPORT Units. Units to use to break throught the Enemy`s defense but not outright Faceroll-yolo-zerg all over them. I´d say with the state of Gear most the Players are in a Siege/Nodewar we would be fine with around 4-5 Ogres, and 4- Trolls per War BUT they are limited to 2 or maybe 3 summoned at the same Time each. This way you can plan around them, you have to defend accordingly but they are unable to dictate the Battle as they are doing right now.

friendly Regards

Spanish

 

Well but Bodythrowing with Ogres is pretty braindead as well. And not everyone is 700 gs on Gamez. The huge amount Ogres on a Baleons Siege can straight up kill a whole Fort on their own without the defending guild even scretching them. Just because your guild has 100 700gs ppl doesn't mean that every guild is like that. And if u think that the only way to win a siege without ogres is by having a lot of gs and rushing the base tells me that you're not veeeery experienced in strategy PvP overall. And i'm pretty sure having a large amount of Ogres will def harm the server more then it would benefit it. If u think about the future of gamez there wouldn't even be point in grinding to get more gear. You do 1v1 with trials in BA and if u have a Siege, you just grind Ogres and rush the Forts.

 

The ability to spawn about an infinite amount of ogres due to the drop rate increase on this server makes guilds with 0 pvp/strategy knowledge win sieges by farming mansha forest all week. Good examples were shown the past weeks. To keep the pvp scene an actual "pvp" scene option 3 would be the most fitting choice.

 

Even though this topic is something that should be discussed by the players that partake in siege hopefully my perspective would help players who aren't understand. As being a part of the 95% who are not ready to partake in Gamez sieges this is not really an issue for us currently. The fact that it doesn't effect majority of the population does not mean its an issue that shouldn't be addressed as the 95% would eventually transition to that point in game. While seeking for the end game gear cap we look forward to competing with other guilds on equal or a more leveled playing field but with these abundant of Ogres roaming the territories would there even be a point to accumulate all this effort for gear when you could essentially park a sub 200 AP character at Manshas to accumulate 10s to 20s to 30s of ogres just to have a constant wave going during sieges. As you watch a guild of 90+ with 700+ GS struggle to fend off each one. If players actually support the fact that you can overwhelm a extra large siege guild with just Ogres then they are support an exploit that's susceptible to bans. This is a game breaking item that should be heavily monitored since this could ruin the enjoyable engame PVP that people are working towards. While i understand that the implentation was to prevent rotations BUT with this drop rate this is making rotations even easier for guilds since they could overwhelm all the attacking guilds with Ogres. This argument can go both ways in terms of how the Ogres can prevent rotations. As of right now they are not the best solution and need to be regulated.

 

Honestly as a new member of the community seeing all the ogres and base racing eachother ruins the fun in a well structured siege. Honestly the ogres could be alot of fun if maintained to a limit having to kill 20+ ogres from 1 guild is kinda ridicilous. So id say either lower the drop chance of them by a great amount or limit us to having 3 to 5 ogres per guild.
Best,
Efiel_Ape

 

its better to set a bit higher limit than 3 maybe 5 or 10 but there should be another limit that how many it can called at the same time and there should be CDR for it so we cant call it right after one ogre dies

 

limit them or disable them. shouldnt be spawning 30+ ogres in the first 5 mins of a siege. they are suppose to be rare after all

 

Bro we only fight ogres i'm assuming ur one of my enemy guilds all you do is send waves of ogres YOU don't actually pvp you force us into PVE hell you don't even engage on the fort you don't even see it you send ogres

 

And i am assuming u are one of the very same guilds who spam about 15 ogres to our base yet for some reason u lost and u are complaining and saying Ogres are the problem. Honestly with all this level of excellency that you guys have in PvP, being the top GS with utmost skills in PvP and the talk i see here about how good everyone from you side is in PVP you should with 200 people and 15 ogres on you side do pretty well yet however EU siege yesterday you lost. This is not about ogres so stop blaming them, problem is in different place. I still stand with the limitations and i would repeat this that it should be 10 per guild with 3 being active at the same time.

 

Top gs omegalul. Its not 2018 anymore im 304 ap and i can name 5-6 ppl rn in my guild below 305ap and also you seem to think this is not about ogres yet you can't win without them and you know thats a fact you guys are lrgit PVEA players fact is before ogres you got smacked and now the abillity to not pvp but send waves of ogres is your mindset of PVP ok you're better at sending waved of ogres although we didnt sit in mansha forest for a week like you nonestop but overall the level of pvp is way higher from your enemies

 

New
What other place would it be? I do not know if you attended the siege or watched, but if you did you could clearly see that the other guilds could not kill Sneeky ball vs ball. It got to the point where not one enemy guild wiped Sneeky and pushed in. They just could not do it. Only thing they could do is spam Ogres. So if they cant win an actual ball fight with actual members against Sneeky then what could it be if not Ogres?

 

They think that grinding mansha forest with 700 lootscrolls for a week makes them superior x)

 

My personal opinion to this topic is to set a limit of Ogre u can use at Siege... Like 3-5 Ogres per Guild... If u only have this amount of Ogres u have to use a good Strategie to get a good Result out of it

 

The Ogres/trolls by themself are not the issue. The issue is that an unlimited amounted can be summoned just about anywhere on the map, unlike elephants.

Currently they are used without tactics or thinking, wave after wave is sent until they overwhelm the opposition. And there is not enough downtime between waves to allow for repairs of infrastructure.
Some people suggest limiting them to 10 per guild and max 3 at a time. Since they can be summoned next to the base as soon as one dies, there will just be a wave of 10 ogres, 3 at a time.

Limiting the sieges to 3 guild mounts total per siege (troll,ogres,elephants,..) would promote tactical use of them.

If people feel that this is too restrictive there could be a limit of 3 of each. Bringing the number up to 9, with 3 maximum up at a time.
In that case i feel that they should only be able to spawn at the guild elephant nursery.

 

I couldn't have said this any better myself! Totally agree.
Something needs to be done with the Ogre/Trolls, nerf, limitations, something.
How it is right now, it ruining the Siege scene all togheter.

 

There are a couple points that seem to be missing.
The availability of ogres is way, way more spiked here than retail. It's an x60 rate instead of the perceived x10. Take the base x10, the massive availability of golden loot scroll for an x2 and the three-time shorter respawn cycle for an x3 as ogres take 5 minutes to respawn here instead of 15 in retail. This is why we end up with massive herds of them leading into a zoo fight. I think we should appreciate how massive and outright broken that modifier is.
Another point that's missing is the lack of clear counter for the unit. I dunno if it's the case or not on retail but I feel the Elephant trap should do massive damage to ogres too. Even if it doesn't work that way on retail, a homebrew ogre trap would be advantageous to have on gamez. It will help expand our options.

 

well said.

 

in my opinion you dont need to change anything about ogre but i have an idea to solve the probleme. since witch are played by like 8 or 10 peaple in total in both EU and NA because of her inexistant damage, you can increase witch damage against orgre by 8000% so witch can kill ogre in like 4 or 5 skills and since its the only class that can do that its balance . oh and in the same time also buff her damage in pvp so we dont need to use 45 skills with 320ap to put a lvl 30 at 50% life, thx , love u all, kiss kiss