Enable dream horse market for 2b and imperial for 1b

Hello BDO players.

Introduction:
As some should know by now the dream horses market option was disabled. In the past, if you invested all those materials and cron stones to get the T9 you wished for and didn't get it you could still sell it and use that money to buy the one you wanted, but not anymore, right now you can only hope... And if you don't get what you wanted... Deal with it, you wasted your time and silver for a dream horse you didn't want or that you already had so nothing in return.
Since you could buy a T9, train it to level 30 and sell it to make 10b silver in a day with just 50 bucks. People complained because of pay to win claims and the option to either sell it at low level, sell it on the imperial delivery and on the market were disabled.
Time passes, and here we are at update 2308 which comes with sea expansion and ships available for direct purchase in the webshop. Two of those could be sold in the in-game marketplace, being the Epheria Sailboat and the Epheria Frigate and this last one being at 50 bucks (the same price as the T9s) can be sold for more than 2b in the market. So I thought... Why not sell the T9s for 2b as well?
Some days ago Kolka said that if it's possible they would try enabling selling T9s for 200. Great, that's a start... But that's just the cost of one try to get T9s in cron stones alone and feels very underwhelming compared to retail, where they sell for 10b like we used to.

This brings us to the actual suggestion: Enable dream horse market so that we can buy them for 2b to players and allow imperial delivery for 1b.

Why this suggestion should be implemented: The T9 market is a thing in the original game, disabling core mechanics that people enjoyed from a game will always make it a worse and less enjoyable experience.

 

Thing is u can buy horses for real money, and ppl can abuse it for making money.

 

Yes, you could, in the past. Not now. But since it seems it's acceptable to sell Epheria Frigate for 2,44b at mid-price, it should be acceptable to sell dream horses for the same price.
It sure seems p2w-ish but I don't think someone would buy 300 T9s for 50 bucks the unit, level them all up to 30 and sell it for just 2b each. What can you buy with 2b? 1 low price PEN pretty much so it's not worth it when you get more value buying the Frigate. Also, for just 22,500 cash, instead of 25,000, you can buy 3 Young Crimson Dragon and sell them for around 710m getting 2,13b at mid-price.
You can also buy 16,740 pearls with 50 bucks and if you turn them into Artisans and those Artisans into Caphras you get 1,2b instantly or 1,52b if you wait for them to sell in the marketplace, not worth it but it's something.
Of course, we are talking about Diné and Arduanatt. Doom and Nightmare Arduanatt should be more expensive because they cost more in the webshop.
In conclusion, I don't mind this level of p2w-ish because in terms of cost/benefit, it's stil very expensive to get anything in the game

 

who in their right mind would buy 80$ horse to sell for 4b cap? way back when people traded buying pens with premium - it was never 80$ it was for maximum 30day prem which is like 20$ish. Thats overpriced. I say enable this because there are people who actually train and breed their horses to and spend the time or even the silver to make a dream horse and then end up with the dream horse they didn't want. So now they're stuck with a stable full of unicorns when all they wanted was a pegasus.

 

I do understand your point of view, however, it's not the same thing to build a Frigate and gathering resources to make a T9 horse. The price and time needed are different, and yes, you can, and probably will, fail a T9, but in ships case, you won't stop on your Frigate.
And yes, I'm in favor of T9 markets, but it should be carefully analized before implemented. I think we could start good with Imperial Selling (and only Imperial) at 1bi. Just to relief a lil the server with those bunch of Dooms and Pegasus that we got.

 

Okay, so, for your information I'm making a Frigate currently. 25 days for the blueprints, the market and my own farm for the rest, then 28 goblin workers and a ton of beers for a week or so. I would say the cost of making this ship didn't cost me more than 1b. But we are not talking about that here. I said that the price in the webshop is the same for both items so they should be treated equal if not almost equal. It's true that Frigate time is fixed and can't be lowered and you can get a T9 in 6 tries, like I did, and make some good money out of it with this change, but you can also get it in 25 tries, like I also did, and completely lose 5b worth of cron stones alone. What do I get in exchange? An Arduanatt that I already had and have to be sitting on a city stable, forgotten and worthless. Should I have the option to sell it to another player that wanted it but got a Diné or a Doom or just grinded for the money? Absolutely!
And I'm afraid I have to disagree with you because I already thought about that and stated it in the original post.
If you think that enabling T9 selling on the market to players will flood the market with a lot of horses, it's true, it probably will, but as I stated in my suggestion, if this is implemented you would have the option to either sell the horse in the market for 2b or in the imperial delivery for 1b. Just let the player decide. If they see that the market is flooded, maybe they'll think that Imperial Delivery is a better choice so what's wrong with giving this choice to the player? A choice that in retail would and will always have despite the Imperial Delivery not being as worthy and the rates for getting the materiales being trash.

 

https://imgur.com/a/wsq33mG

Just wanted to point out the disparity between your first statement and the facts @CLANNADaniel.
As you can clearly see the amount of sold ships, on the Central Market is in fact extremely small.
So the first claim you made about it functioning as a Pay-To-Win mechanism, where you can turn real-world-money into in-game-currency(silver), is not actually true as such, because while the possibility remains that it Could be used as such, it is not currently being abused. Also one more thing, this topic has been up quite a few times now, and it has been throughly discussed, a forum search and links added would have made a much better point of your thread.

BUT as you all have made it clear, it is a good idea to implement some form of solution to this problem, and I personally agree that it is ridiculous, that the developers haven't just made the tiny adjustment to the items in the webshop, making them "Family Bound" upon recieving them in-game, that way they can still be bought as a gift for someone else, and ALL the items in the webshop are then unabusable.

Although, I can see that it is a benefit to keep the Special/Limited costumes and outfits in the webshop, as a commodity since it can be of use for the GameZ coffers, as well as the players who are unable to afford spending real-world-money on a computer game, but that still want an outfit/costume from the webshop.

So all in all, I agree that there should be a 2-Billion silver Horse Market price for the T9, and a 1/2 price for the Imperial Horse Vendor. Actually seems like a good rate and idea in general.

 

Why would you choose the hardest path? You could just upgrade a Bartali.

 

the main thing here is: you can get the t9s in game without spending money
then, if you could sell them, that means that people would not buy them in the shop, since you can just grind some silver and get your t9 that was made in-game for free

 

Thats what people who can't spend real life money or refuse to spend real life money on a private server do already. I'm pretty sure the amount of people who grinded for the horse far outweigh the people who couldn't be bothered with the grind and bought it for real money. In my personal opinion the only thing actually worth buying in the webshop is outfits not obtainable in the pearlshop -which honestly is pretty underwhelming, the auto gather hedgehog, Premium, and the exp transfer scrolls. Everything else is just meh. Even the main/sub/awakening transfers are kind of eh. Those weapon skins are kind of pointless.

 

I get how you would instantly assume that this could be an abusable way to get silver, but the thing is that the time spent gathering the necessary materials, or buying them off the Central Market, is a side-effect bonus for the game-world, as it injects extra gathering materials and T9 materials into the Central Market, making that somewhat underused part revived. Also it is not easier to make a T9 horse, than it is to make a T8 Courser horse, which are already being made and sold by the hundreds.

I do find it quite sad that there isn't a bigger amount of variation to the Webshop, but even more so that some players feel as you do; that most of it is just not interesting at all. I do understand that the players who have the income and no need to spend their money on more important things, choose to buy themselves some items for the game to make their game-time more enjoyable, which to my mind is exactly the whole point of the Webshop.
But I am however going to have to make a new thread about this particular topic, because now we are talking about the Webshop and not the thread topic anymore.

 

I agree and I think this idea should be implemented. But only from the Dream horses what has been made via upgrade method from Tier 8 up.

As it stands right now there is no real way to do anything with the Dream horses once those are made. In the future reference we are getting Tier 10 horse upgrade mechanic (already implemented) where you can combine cross gender horses (male + female), but not same gender horses. So having ability to sell same gender horse what you already have is best option.
There is no lie Dream horses are huge silver investment, there should be some outcome if we want to get rid of that investment like in retail.

One might argue, that players would be able to sell webshop horses and this would open up whole mechanic for RMT.
Not really, webshop horses could have small title in behind the type of horse - similar way like we had Caphras stones, one were normal ones and other ones were [Event] ones. And any horse what has this little thing behing their name would NOT be able to sell their dream horse.
This way we only allow horses what are made from lower tier up.

Example you make Dream horse from Tier 8:

Example you buy Dream horse from Webshop:

 

The selling rule is probably a list of IDs denying or allowing the item to be sold at different systems. That said, its doable, however it would require additional custom horses, which wouldn't be that easy to implement. It's not a simple item that Devs could duplicate... Search for Caphras on bdocodex, you'll find various Caphras with different IDs, one of them are those "Event" ones. Every item needs its own ID and adding new IDs (custom items) into a game like Black Desert wouldn't be that easy. Now search for Arduanatt, you'll find only 3 Mounts. One Male, one Female (both can be sold) and a Female not available for sell. Since we don't know what the system use the third for (perhaps the new t10 system since the original Arduanatts can't breed), we would need another 2 Arduanatts in database, another couple, but this time they would be able to be sold. And well, we don't find much custom content here...

 

So, any news about this being possible?
Since the [Event] tag thing may not work because IDs problem, what about selling the horses for everyone? Even if they were bought in the web shop. It just feels very disappointing as a new player experience to get a horse you didn't want, asking in the chat why you can't sell it to buy the one you want and getting the response that it's disabled because people abused it with cash.

As I said in one of my previous posts, you can buy an Epheria Frigate from the webshop for the same price as a T9 (50€) and sell it for NOW 3,29b in the NA marketplace (it was 2,4b back then) and as @loboram said, it's not being abused so there is no reason to think that giving a price as low as 2b for purchase and 1b for imperial will encourage abuse, and you even have to train it to level 30 and get most skills if you want it to be sold, whereas Epheria Frigate is just buy and resell.

In addition, you don't have to worry about a flooded horse market, yes it may be flooded at the start but things tend to stabilize by themselves, and as I said before, since if the player sees that there is no way that their horse is going to sell any time soon they can just imperial delivery it for 1b.
Now, I want you to take a look at retail EU right now: https://prnt.sc/1qb69k5 you could say it is flooded and I don't think there is a problem with that; 107 horses, 33 being Diné and rest Dooms. There are no pegasus because probably that's the most desired horse in the game (a flying horse, come on, who wouldn't want that?) That is probably how the horse market is gonna look in the near future if this suggestion were to be approved. That said, if there were a lack of Pegasus people would start making them, maybe they get bad luck the first time but hey, they can do it again, and they know that if they fail again they have the hope for them that is the horse market.
Most people would just want a Pegasus and call it a day, some want 2 Pegasus, male and female to attempt T10, some want a Diné and soon 2 Diné for the T10 too, some a Doom. Why not enable the market and make people happy about it?

Currently, what do we have here? We have nothing, there is no way to trade horses. And with T10 Diné we will have a big problem because getting the materials for it is just too hard, way harder than getting the materials for the rest of the horses, most people will just give up. And how do you expect someone to make 2 for it? I tried making one Diné, but instead I got 3 Pegasus and 2 Dooms, I had to buy my Diné from the webshop out of frustration. And I was almost about to quit the game for good because of that that time I didn't came back for months and months. I was so heavily invested in T9s, they looked so cool I didn't even care about gear, I had like 160 AP and just TRI Bheg Gloves when I made my first T9, 20 failstacks.
The last time I tried again a T9 attempt it was with a lot of Diné materials but again... Another pegasus... And then I bought it. With this horrible experience, do you expect me to be happy about the incoming T10 Diné? Do you really think I will even consider trying to get it? No, it will be dead on arrival content, not only to me but to everyone else that had the same awful luck that I had. In retail I could had just bought it with silver and end of story. But not here... And why can't I do it? There are several people that try to get a specific one but can't after many attempts, like me. Why am I not able to sell the horse that I got by pure hard work on Kamasylve daily quests, crop farming, buying cron stones and a large etc? Why am I not able to buy the horse that I want from another player that got another unwanted horse and may not want to hold that horse in a stable forever?
It just feels bad, it NEEDS to be improved and I know that I'm not alone in this, many agree with me as we can see in this post alone, and I talked about it today on server chat because someone who just made a Doom asked why the game said that he couldn't sell it, talked about it a bit and many agreed with me as well, and that's the reason why I'm here right now, I want this game to be better, and disabling features like this makes it a worse experience and a worse game.
I don't want my hard work to go to waste, to be just a money and time sink, all that for nothing, a horse that I already have, never used and will never use but in official could just sell it by pressing two buttons. I want us the players to feel rewarded for the investment that we made, like in any other activity in the game where if we invest time and effort, we get a reward of silver; grinding mobs, gathering, hunting, bartering... You name it.
Not here, attempting T9s feels like an awful trash gatcha experience where you can't protect yourself, there is no pity system, nothing, if you had bad luck with getting the Dream Horse you wanted, just deal with it and try again.

And to add up, I want you think about this from a new player perspective, just imagine how good it would look like: "A BDO private server where you can buy the Dream Horses for just 2b, not only cheaper than in the official server but here you can make money faster."
To me, if I were a new player, it would be breathtaking.

So, @Chiclete do you know if this is possible? Could this be a considered or accepted suggestion?

 

Yes please. I just want a Doom and at this point I have enough dream horses to have all my main charaters use one on each foot. I have 2 main characters and 1 I sometimes play, I have 6 dream horses and since I still don't have that doom there will be at least 1 more.
I never liked unicorns and guess what, by using pega and doom mats I managed to get not 1, not 2, but 3 unicorns. Judging by CLANNADaniel's story you might even think that the materials linked to the different types of dream horses were somehow switched.
There are a lot of people wanting to get certain dream horses that are just not able to get it and I am stuck with them in stable, cannot sell them to the player, cannot rent them to the player. They are just there in a far away stable.
This is frustrating for me and the people that want the dream horse. I understand Gamez cannot implement mechanics that aren't in retail, but this mechanic has been here since the dream horses were implemented and Gamez simply just disabled it.

 

The solution may be simple.
You can sell one dream horse for 30 days.
And only the one you have awakened yourself.
But only if you buy premium
(an option, to compensate for the "loss" at least a little on those not bought for cash)

 

Why would I need to buy premium for something I could just do in official servers like normal? Why make this a feature that you MUST pay to enable? That, if it were possible at all. It's nonsense.

That way someone who made a horse can get potentially 2b or 1b instantly if they had premium but the one who doesn't have it receives nothing in return, and that sounds like pay to win crap to me. It wouldn't be an advantage like extra % in enhancing or a bit more % of silver from the marketplace tax, it would a be plain reward that others just aren't able to get, it would be like limiting the marketplace sells to everyone but premium players. And taking into account that premium also gives more % chance for Dream Horse attempts it is even more wrong. I would be okay with premium giving a bit more silver out of selling horses but that would be enough.

And as @Chiclete said, it is impossible to differentiate between the ones bought and made, there is no way since there are not enough IDs.

 

Daniel.
Ask yourself why you can't sell your dream horse.
And then read my last proposal, given as an option with the rest.

P.S.
Coming back.
I am very happy to discuss other solutions that will satisfy each party.
Both the players and the server support.
Let's try to work out a compromise.

 

...? I think I don't get it, sorry.
If we were to be compensated for the "loss" of horse market for years and the multiple "unsuccessful" (you got the one you didn't want) dream horse attempts it should be better to open it for everyone, shouldn't it?
You are basically saying to the players that got many unwanted horses and got frustrated to spend money on a server that disabled a mechanic they wished it existed when they tried to get that specific horse they wanted, that way, they can get something in return, else, they'll keep still those horses on a forgotten city stable. I think it that's slightly disrespectful.

 

No problem.

I suppose the cash dream horse is a significant income for this server.
It is enough to see the multitude of inquiries why seasonal characters cannot ride them.
Hence the proposal that the server should get something in return.

I don't know what the horse code markings are.
But looking at the horse's appearance change coupon from the rewards for presence and from pearlshop,
the descriptions do not differ, and you can only put up the pearl on the market.

Maybe it's the same with horses? @Carl @Kolka?

Is this a good time for a possible implementation?
You know, a big new patch is on the way.

P.S.
Daniel. Now I know why we don't pass each other training horses in Davencrune