[Again] Religion and Atheism.

To be honest, there comes a point where both sides step on eachothers toes.

Irony? I am religious (Christian), yet I severely disagree with what many "Christians" do.

Why do I say this?

#1: I think its as obvious as being hammered in the face that "Thy shall not judge" is something that just may be a little (a lot) importaint?

All I see is supposed Christians running around hating on everyone. Examples ?

Example A.) "ALL FAGS GO TO HELL!!!!" "GAYS EAT DA POO POO" "IT ISN'T EVOLUTIONARYLY RIGHT"

Example B.) "AETHEISTS ARE GOING TO BURN TOO!" "I HATE YOU ALL, AETHEISTS i'MA FLAME BROIL YOU WITH THE BIBLE THAT I FOLLOW AND AM NOW COMPLETELY IGNORING ITS TEACHINGS"

Example C.) Bible thumping in itself is abusing the name of God and using it for the spreading of hate.

One of the ten commandments? From Exodus and Deuteronomy "You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name."


Blah I'll just go through the list.

-"You shall not make for yourself an idol", that in itself is something that people may not necessarily realize... many people litterally cling to money in all of its finery, fame, etc...
-"But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you"

For many people their employeers force them to work excrutiating hours. And as for respect for animals, or "resident aliens"... that is sadly a virtue many people have ignored.

-"Honor your father and mother as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you."

Yet another thing that has been lost, especially in this generation. One sees children from some of the most loving and caring homes (legitimately, not fake) and they turn to drugs partying sex, etc. Baffiling many people.

-"You shall not kill/murder, neighter shall you steal. Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor. Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbor’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor"

This entire batch of things generally has been thrown into the wind by most people. False accusations are made all the time in court rooms even after being sworn in, many people murder and etc, countless have stolen from others and etc.

The most upsetting part is that after doing many of these things that society itself also considers a "crime", these people turn to god for guidance... whether that is true or not it is something that happens... and it hasn't been unheard of that it is just a veil to cover up their real motives.


-Last, but definately not least, is the fact that the bible states "Neither shall you commit adultery."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery


I'll just blast some quotes out at ya'll.

"Three recent studies in the United States, using nationally representative samples, have found that about 10–15% of women and 20–25% of men admitted to having engaged in extramarital sex"

10-15% of women, 25% of men. I am also a cynical person and I realize that even under confidential conditions that the experimenter is forced to overlook, many more people would have lied and said they didn't have an extramaritial affair.



Something many people kindly ignore? The fact that divorce, marriage to another man/woman after the current spouse has parted from this world, and many other excuses people will attempt to make... is well... quoting again... D:

"9 I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and he who marries her when she is divorced commits adultery"


And I could get into the cardinal sins like gluttony, lust, envy, pride, wrath, etc... but I think I've more than proven my point.

So... essentially there is a large rift between those who are Chrstian and those who are using the Bible and God and Jesus to spread their hatred onto others. Not to mention that they don't even follow the very simple rules laid out in all of the books, the same ones they happily stomp onto others with.


A arguement to be had in religious affairs (that is not biased in either direction) would be whether divorce and remarriage... that which is considered ADULTRY and is ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS... why is it exactly that this obviously more than sinful act is condoned by the church and they have happily for quite a while now allowed a person to marry, divorce, marry again, divorce... many of these people in even the same church... and yet homosexuality, which is mentioned briefly and is very confusing (yet NOT EVEN CLOSE to being in the Ten Commandments) is still under scrutiny of the church in the USA... the country that apparantly supports the rights and freedoms and consistantly states that their nation is blessed by God.

That isn't even including the genocides happening across the world to homosexual men and women that is happening because people slander the name of God. One can even go onto youtube and it is more than easy to pop up a random video and see some furious arguement between a homosexual/homosexual supporter and a supposedly Religious person. "You gay ur'e going to hell". Then we have the killings of citizens in even Canada and the USA who were gay by people who are using the bible as a tool for hatred... it is WRONG period.


Then another example is Lady Gaga's new music video Judas... I've never seen such a horrifying accumulation of hatred from people who go around telling everyone they love God and Jesus and worship them every day and go to Church every Sunday... and then they vomit comments out like "dirty whorebag you are going to go suffer in hell for this" and other revolting judgemental comments and then they slander some more.


So in terms of Religion, in specifics Christianity which I know the most about, there are true Christians who follow God and Jesus. And, then you have those who are simply using the Bible in vein to spread their hatred, insecurities and other problems onto others. Wars, hate-crimes commited so often that even the police have began to stop responding in major cities and the news doesn't even report the events because it has gotten to be a topic so often seen it is "boring", and the entire lot of problems... these all stem from those who abuse the name of God and Jesus. From those who would rather use the bible as a sword to stab others apart than to use it as a shield to protect.


Religion in itself is pure and promotes unity, hope and dignity. It gets people to work together and strive for a better future and to treat others better while they live out their lives on this humble planet, Earth. However, human nature has shown that we are brutalistic by nature. We have canine teeth in our jaws for tearing meat off of bone, we have cunning to set traps and devise strategies, and many other examples. Rage, hatred, envy/jealousy, lust in themselves drive human-kind to strive to new heights and also causes people to want to fight and betray one another eagerly. Likewise, we also all suffer from xenophobia... the dislike of others with different politics, etc from our own. Likewise, various religions have appeared and all crazyness broke loose when they interacted with one another. Some religions more unforgiving than others, and some more forgiving.

On that note, Christianity is by far the most readily seen religion in Canada and the United States, along with large portions of Europe such as Great Britian. Three of the most powerful nations in history all dedicated to a single faith which states that one should not judge others, to not worship false idols, to not kill, to not steal... and to essentially not annihilate a neighbor (neighbor in itself is a loose term, however it is not uncommon to be thought of as anyone around oneself... and by that I mean we are all neighbors of the planet Earth, are we not?) and yet we have had many battles. Crusades, templars, divine sieges, territorial wars between lords under the false idol of a king.

However, I won't say that it is all innocent. There are verses that would be very controversial in it such as people from other lands are to be ones slaves, wearing clothes made of two different fabrics is also considered a sin, etc. Obviously there have been changes to the Bible through the years and misinterpreations by us all, however the message still rings clear that it wishes for peace and tranquility and unity between people.


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Onto the Atheist viewpoint now...

Atheism is essentially a state of posessing no religion. It is not defined as being "anti religious", anyone that thinks so is tricking themselves into seeing a threat that is not there. As science has evolved, arts bursting through the seams ever since the great romantic period of our time, communication being enhanced and the ability to instantly message another person across great distances... so did our world grow. And with that came answers to questions that were lost (and burning of books by the Chruch in the past is another action that the Bible itself does not condone, that is theft of knowledge and intelligence from the entire world in my opinion. Something sacriligious in itself.) and then found again, and then built upon.

Medicine blossomed from what may as well be described as a pudding of filth and disgust... it wasn't really an art at all initially. However, people evgentually learned how to properly treat certain maladies that proved fatal, how to numb the senses, how various plants (drugs) that were used SOOOOOOO many generations previously worked.

People essentially began to become more intelligent and with that intelligence became more cynical. As a person of science myself, I admit I brutally scruitinize all things presented to me. Eg: A patient comes in with a rash obviously caused by a STI (sexually transmitted infection), yet they deny any form of intercourse. I am then forced to run alternate tests, and if those do not work, I am honest with them and tell them the truth.

Because the alternative would be much more severe to them than the treatment for this particular STI I am forced to be cynical. Otherwise they can honestly go without treatment.

That being said, there came a point when society evolved so much that religion was itself scrutinized. No one had any evidence to the contrary, it was 2,000 years ago and any real evidence was lost in the waves of time. With that, many people began to dismiss the claim of religion even existing, and so Atheism was born.

However, it is importaint for one to realize that everyday there are constantly new discoveries being made and that as advanced as we like to think we are... we are still currently trapped in what the future will forever call the stone age. The age when recessions occured, a man made fallacy, the age where we couldn't even solve common diseases, the age when robotics is still infintile, the age when our society was still trapped on our home world and too caught-up-in-itself to do research and put efforts towards expanding its reach, the age when the population was fascinated with drinking ethanol (alcohol) compounds which dealt damage to such a wide variety of their organs that even their brain was damaged... and they enjoyed that very damage as "getting shit-faced".


That in itself, is the statement of a cynic. And with that comes nothing more true.

Atheists like to think we are advanced, however, anyone that actually studies anything of importaince will realize critical flaws. Hell, even some rudimentry second year courses go into it... research fails to explain even the "easy" problem of cognition, the neural correlate of conciousness, and so many other examples lay in wait for anyone brave enough to explore. We, as a society, are still stuck in the stone ages and know nothing.

That being said, I do not believe either that events so fragile, so frail that we even fail to get past the most hilariously simple of steps we theorized in laboratories, the fact we live on a planet that is seemingly calm and located in a perfect orbit, the evolution that we praise along with Darwin that has produced us alone that has higher cognitive abilities, etc.... I do not believe that such a great fallacy exists, as to truly believe that by fortune every single last step leading up to now has "just happened". And that, in itself, goes along scientific evidence.

Let's even look into introductory Organic Chemistry, something anyone who wants to learn anything about biological systems should have in their belt.

So we have aromatic compounds... benzene being a six membered ring which forms pi bonds with its carbons to create a shockingly stable "aromatic" compound by using its disturbed electrons. Then we have three benzene rings fused together with [5]Anullene to create the framework for a steroid compound. Then we have various additions we can make ti ut such as on carbon 17 adding a beta-hydrogen group to create "Androstane" a common steroid hormone.

The synthesis, even the mass production if that hormone itself is utter brilliance. The fact that enzymes can alter the structure of basic parts like cholesterol to form androgens and etc is a marvel at best.

The fact that they even work properly? That is amazing. Considering how steroids come in all shapes, sizes, and forms from mediating physiological alterations on a mass scale, formation of external male genetalia by dihydroxytestosterone, that many steroids are even fatal cardiac toxins, etc... it is amazing.


So amazing that any true cynic is tripped up by the mere "coincidence" that all of these components can come together as one, work with one another in homeostasis and then us humans rule over all animals which are seemingly docile for the most part? It is nearly impossible to imagine.

In reality, if one is looking for answers... one had best look at the staggering amounts of evidence that refutes the hypothesis that we "just are".


However, that is all merely my personal opinion, and one I don't flaunt around. I fully admit I am a Christian, and I am entitled to that! Just as everyone else is entitled to their own opinions.


And, at the very worst, Religion can be a powerful tool for spreading peace, volunteerism and hope. To tell people they aren't merely going to die and their entire existance will fade away into the flesh of the Earth itself, to give a glimpse of hope to a patient who is giving up as they believe they are terminal... it sounds like a load of hogwash, but the will to live is real. Patients who can keep their faith tend to eat more and drink more, to keep going forward and to push through the pain and the agony of surgery, loss, disease.

If for nothing else to others, Religion is a method to keep our balance. A tool to the non-believers to keep those who are faithful in check, to prevent theft, killing, etc... critical elements that our society has severe laws in place against. So, for that at least, Religion is useful even for the atheist who doesn't believe in it.

In such a sense a true Christian and a atheist who believes in law and morality should have no issue with one another. The Christian, by the will of God and Jesus and the Bible is given the responsibility to not judge. The atheist should look at a true Christian as a person who is bound by morals, and if nothing else that they would be bound by; they would represent a figure in society to aspire towards.

In such a way, Christianity and atheism has been regarded as "Christianity vs. atheism"... when the truth of the matter is both stand by very similar principles... however Christianity is bound by their love of God and Jesus and atheism by their brute belief on the facts and the laws of this world.

Which one is right? As I explained above, no one truly knows.

TOPIC HAS BEEN ROCKED BY AEGISSSSSSSZORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. WHABAM!

 

is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
then he is not omnipotent
Is he able, but not willing?
then he is malevolent
is he both able, and willing?
then whence cometh evil?
is he neither able nor willing?
why call him god...

quote of epicurus and this says enough to close this thread

 

you cannot fathom the knowledge God is at, you cannot see at all. hence you cannot understand and comprehend.

if you question him it just means you don't understand him, to understand him you have to be like him. but we are human so no one can answer your question. you will know when you die.

we call him God because he knows everything in which humans can only question. simple.

@Aegis you just killed the thread.

 

so you say that religion doesn't lead to violence? i mean sure it offers peace, but what happens when the people that want power missuse it? i mean the earliest terrorists were the christians with their crusades to "free" the holy land... yet whoes free in this world? the people who submit to the church? or the people that dare to think different. this is in no way an excuse to kill people. neither is this message meant to bring your faith down, just to let you know that other people can think different about subjects and dont need to submit to authority.

 

tell me whats the different between a live and dead object, theres the same amount of energy stored and particles. though faith is only too fool the mind so it thinks theres reason, otherwise if a animal or plant thinks theres no reason, it will fail in survival. and in biology you learn that every living thing wants to survive. i dont want to bring your faith down but i just want to explain why everyone thinks theres a higher power. i'm cool with you all believing, but if you kill for a higher power cause he said so... you can go to hell and i'll meet you there (No Offence)

 

Thats EXACTLY the point he was making. Religion itself does NOT lead to violence. I'm of the mindset that beliefs are beliefs and by all means people should believe in whatever they want, because if we're all bickering over whos right, THAT is what leads to violence. Religion and having your opinions and beliefs has no part in it, people always want to misuse it though.

People use it as a veil to protect their image, people use it to say others are wrong because they don't share their views, etc. etc.

If you read Aegis' wall (****ing crit for billions, but he put a lot of thought into that and I respect him for doing so) you'll see all his fine points about religion being misused even though in its pure state, it has no reason to invoke violence at all. People can blame the religion all they want for the violence and wars, but what it boils down to is survival of the fittest, our natural instinct and brutalistic traits to try to surpass others makes us violent in a lot of ways, ready to fight for what we believe in because thats what our psyche tells us will make the world better and stronger, and we're made for that purpose. We are the cause, not religion, yet we always blame it on the religion itself not ourselves and human nature.

 

btw i agree with the hindoes that all ends up in one brahma (one god) so people lets stop killing eachother for these reasons and have fun

 

Oh don't worry, your comment was respectful and very fair! No offense taken, I am really not taht kind of person o.o

To answer though: Religion does have forms that can lead to violence, such as the parts which state that Christians should take people from other locations as their slaves. However, in its purest form (unabused), Christianity in itself should be very peaceful. Humanity, however, has proven time in and time again that those who lack morals will use and abuse whatever they can to achieve X goal. Whether it means sacrificing Y thing to obtain it.

And with this, "intelligent", individuals have used religion as a tool to sway the masses to do their bidding. Something religion itself is not to blame for. The main issues lay within misinterpretations and conflicting points of view.

One common one is "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."... and yet Christianity sings about forgiveness and repenting for ones sins.

I don't believe that religion in its purest form is a tool for hatred in the instance for Christianity.

 

like i said in my previous post, i too don't agree in killing because of beliefs/religion but take it positively to generate good/moral results not an excuse.

i have faith, question is do you loose something if you do believe? you would gain more if its true, you loose non if its not. my faith keeps me sane and moral. i do not use it as an excuse.

 

Thank you ^_^ I am glad you enjoyed it =3

 

so we all made peace and can now live next to eachother without anyone using rpg's or anything that shoots lead on eachother?

 

that makes us humans... if we were God we knew better. if the world would be at true peace then i would agree we are now all God or Matured Human beings.

 

i know what you mean that man is violent in nature but a little tollerance can be given right? i mean there are enough reasons to fight other battles, lets just abandom this one

 

Someone created us and the universe..i mean..you can say that it wasnt God but it was just pure science-luck-big bang or whatever..but its too random to believe..Atheists are those who have lost every single hope and im sorry for them..

 

lol why feel sorry? i think reason brings peace. look i learned that the universe is nothing but a cicle that repeats. we dont die we just fall down to atoms, in a way we are immortal, we cant die so why be afraid? if its natural all people before and after us will do it. so in a way we are no other than a rock or a little branch

 

Some people choose to believe different things. Its not a bad thing, others have different reasons to believe what they want, but if you always feel like your side is correct and theirs is "sad and obviously wrong", then where will we ever get in life on the subject? Opinions should be respected no matter what its about, because in the end trying to change opinions only makes people stubborn and hostile.

 

btw atheist dont loose hope. they find it, if they understand they wil not resist it.
and its better to know than to guess

 

I'm too lazy to read all you've written, but from my first topic I understood one thing: Stop discussing this, one should believe what he wants even though it's stupid or not.