Hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

If people want to spend 150plus on a free play then that's fine by me. I spend more money on the shop in free to play games then I do in games where you to have pay upfront or pay a monthly fee. So long as it's a good game and the devs are actually trying to make a good game and improve it instead of just doing the bare minimum and just trying to milk as much money as possible out of a popular franchise.

I spend a ton of money on LoL and Warframe because I like the games, I like the devs,(actually played with a dev on Warframe last week and had a lot of fun), and they actually work to try and make the best game they can instead of trying to nickel and dime their playerbase.

If you don't want to spend the money on an item shop in a F2P then you don't have too. But if you want to play a subscription based game like ESO then you HAVE to pay the fees. Or learn how to code and spend hours upon hours setting up your own server.

And like I said about those graphics. They're passable, but they're not that amazing.

 

Quite pretty, and I've actually heard good things about ESO especially the lore, but seriously I could not play a game with elder scrolls races/armor styles without modding. I'm way too concerned with player aesthetics and looking like a fairy princess

 

Well, since you're just repeating what Angryjoe said (a person which made a review in the first 1-2 weeks after release and overreacts to entertain his subs) of course there were bugs but they're mostly gone and he doesn't know shit about PvP since he only zergs nor he ever reached endgame.. The fact that he was complaining about the horse fee.. I had the money after 1 day of questing.

I also played LoL and Warframe, league gets so much money but cant even effort stabile servers (EUW) but Warframe was fine just got boring since it was kinda lacking content

So, i paid 60 Euro to play ESO and got a free month, if i wanna continue playing then i pay for another month? They're not forcing you to pay.. And i still pay less than i would in a f2p game, just a Bikini in Tera cost more than 12 bucks, you could even buy a real Bikini from H&M for that money, haha

 

How would you like it if you bought a car, but you can't drive it unless you pay the car dealer a monthly fee? Or if you buy a new couch, but you have to pay the furniture store 15 bucks a month just to sit on it? Or if you buy a new clothes, but have to pay the store you bought them for a fee each month just to wear them? That is basically what they are doing with their subscription bullshit. I can't personally comment on the state of the game itself atm as I haven't played it and I'm sure they've released a few patches and updates by now to fix some of the more major bugs and issues with the game but the main thing is I'm not gonna shell out an extra fee each month just to play a game I already paid for.

And sure you don't "have' to pay the fee, but then you can't play the game you already spent hard earned money on.(or maybe you didn't earn that money and if so then shame on you). If I don't want to spend money on Warframe, or LoL or any other game, then I don't have to AND I still get to play those games.

 

In an ideal world I like gw2's payment system the most but it can't work for every game and be profitable

 

In an ideal world we would have Nervgear and be playing games like Elfheim or Sword Art Online, only someone will actually do a few tests to make sure the system is safe for use and that it won't be able to fry our brains should we die in the game.

I mean seriously how the hell did those things even get released. And why the hell did Kirito USE IT AGAIN to play Elfheim after he escaped SAO? Plot holes, plot holes everywhere.


Or better yet, holodecks. Only once again make sure all the testing is done to make sure that the safety features don't malfunction half the times they're in use and put everyone in danger of dying horrible deaths.

 

I believe it was stated in the anime that they had "upgraded" the sets by the time Alfheim came out to prevent the incident from happening again.

 

Still, nowadays before pretty much ANYTHING is released to the market, it goes through all kinds of trials, tests, and inspections to make sure it's safe for public use. If a VR style game helmet has the hardware to FRY YOUR BRAIN, then someone fucked up big time as that little problem should have been found and dealt with in the R and D part of the development cycle. Because now that company should be completely bankrupt after losing a shit ton of multimillion dollar lawsuits from players and their families.

Because I guarantee you that I ever got stuck in a situation like in SAO then one of the first things I would have done upon finally being able to log out would be to call my lawyer and have him file a lawsuit for infinite billion dollars. And then sharpen my knives to prepare to go the big company's corporate HQ and start cutting off manhoods and feeding them to goats. And if I didn't make it out then before going on I would have my last will and testament contain instructions for all my friends and family members to do those things I just said I would do. And then I would come back as a ghost and haunt alente. Maybe bug carl a bit too.

 

I think.

That both revenue models are fine. And are supposed to appeal to different customers. Hence it becomes a matter of opinion and preferences.

On the other hand, I am waiting for VR system with a remade Doom.

 

Video games -- specifically MMOs -- are the only form of entertainment where whiny entitled retards can moan about getting hours upon hours and days upon days of entertainment for a ridiculously low fee. Not only is a subscription model absolutely normal for MMOs (remember when Aion was subscription based? TERA? Rift? TOR? Age of Conan? LotRO?), it's viable. . Even worse are the games with micro transactions -- where content (weapons, armor, skins, upgrades, boosts, whatever) are locked until you pay for them. Mind you, these aren't services like name changes, transfers, remodels, etc, but content that should be in the game regardless. Instead, you pay $10 for the costume, $20 to get some upgrade components, $10 for a new weapon skin, and maybe $5 for some item for an in-game event or some shit. Well fuck me...that's 3 months of subscription time dropped in a week for something that I could have earned in-game within a month for a sub-game. And no telling how much more I'm going to spend or some other shit later in the month. And why isn't anyone complaining about Netflix fees? Hulu Plus? HBO Go? Because I can't think for myself, and poo poo on games that someone tells me to poo poo on, even though I get way more for the price. That's why :'-(


If by "passable", you mean "the best in the industry" (including the money-grubbing "BUY MY RECIPES AND SHIT" Warframe), then yes I agree with you. If you don't, you need to reconstitute your definition of passable:














Shit that is -- indeed -- passable. Nice medium graphics ESO:










Shit that looks like early last gen console games. Nice Fable 2 graphics:










Shit that looks like the devs took a really good class on MS Paint. Basically Rusty Hearts 2:










And...this. This needs to cut its losses now and burn that shit. Nice Sims 1 graphics:

These are some of the worst analogies I've ever heard....clothes? Furniture? That's apples and oranges man, seriously now. And you pay weekly for your gas, don't you? Maybe bi weekly? Are you boycotting or returning your vehicle because you want that shit to run on entitlement? Might as well say "Nature doesn't charge us a fee to breathe. Ball is in your court, ESO". There is some shit messed up in the game, that's a given, but I would rather know that I'm paying for a service that is going to be constantly and diligently maintained until it's as close to perfection as it can be, and all without holding my costumes and weapon skins hostage. Nice.

 

This is honestly one of the more intelligent arguments I've seen for game subs in a few years.

I really don't have a problem with cosmetic item micro transactions though.
As for subscription, it can be irritating at times to be unable to play an MMO you paid for because you can't sub for it at the time, but one thing to consider is that most games are released at $60 and that's the game. MMOs with a subscription system are $60 + per month BUT you are paying for the continued development of the game, prolonging its entertainment value.

 

A subscription model WAS "absolutely normal" for MMOs, such as Aion(actually came here because I didn't want to pay the subscription to grind day in and day out just to get to the PvP fun) TERA, Rift, TOR, Age of Conan, LotRO and many others but you forgot to mention one MAJOR detail about all those games YOU mentioned.

They all moved to the free to play model. Now why would they do that? Because people are fucking sick and tired of having to pay the initial cost to buy the game, the cost of any expansions,(not always mandatory I admit, you just don't get the expansion features) and then the subscription fee. All those games started losing players and losing money because people were bailing out left and right or didn't even go near them all together because of those fees. When they went Free to Play, people came back and started playing, they started buying shit from the item shops, and suddenly the games were able to remain successful and not decay into horrible oblivion while the game designers await those dreaded notices of layoffs and firings due to the failure of the games.

Also with Hulu Plus, Netflix, HBO Go, and other services, the fees are usually lower, you can actually cancel your cable or satellite service with them and just watch Netflix or Hulu, or and you don't have to pay 60 bucks just to get them going. So there's that too.

Also speaking for F2P models that you seem to hate so much because of the whole having to pay extra to unlock new content, tell me, how do you play as an Imperial in ESO? Because from what I heard you don't get that feature right off the bat. You have to pay an extra 20 dollars for the collector's edition or whatever to play as the Imperial Race.

So get rekt.

Ok so the graphics are better than initially shown, I'll give you that, but still you need more than good graphics to make a good game and ESO still failed there. Also "best in the industry". Nice joke there. I like how you add in the little jokes along with your serious arguments to make your post more interesting. That's a nice touch.

Those analogies are fine and the premise is the same. It's extremely for a company to charge you an upfront cost for almost any product, and then a fee just to use what you just bought. And I'm not talking about "expenses" like gas for your car. By the way my car gets about 35 miles per gallon and I rarely have to fill it up more than once a month, and not even that even unless I go out of town for a long distance monster hunting trip.

And F2P has its flaws but when done right it works nicely, such as League of Legends. Pretty much all the money you spend is on skins, and you can even earn quite a few skins for free. You don't gain any stat advantage when using a skin, you just give a different look to your character. Kind of like the same method other F2P games(including Warframe) use.

Now F2P Pay to Win is a problem and many games and servers do go that route,*coughcoughssuchashereongamez*coughscough* Oh my I must have spring allergies. There have been quite a few games(mostly WoW servers) that I quickly abandoned because all the "best" players are the ones who dropped several hundred dollars for the ultra mega super gear that lets them one shot and tank every hit from every player that hasn't also dropped several hundreds for that ultra mega super gear.

But I see no problem with having cosmetic items in the shop to give your toon a new look. I'd rather pay ten bucks for a new skin in LoL and be able to download and play the game for free, then have to pay 60 bucks up front, and then 15 bucks every month just to play the game. But then again, I'm obviously crazy, so your mileage may vary.

 

WoW private servers did have a really bad habit of being pay to win, that is true lol. Then again its mostly the same in Aion, lineage 2 and similar games as well.

Anyway, another thing that could be said is that MMOs used to have a sub and that's it, no initial payment for the game. Even after that, it was usually $20 + sub, now it has moved up to $60 + sub, and some sub MMOs still have micro transactions (looking at you, wow). I personally don't have a problem with subscription models but you can definitely see how things got a lot more expensive over the past 12 years or so. It got expensive because players accepted it and bought into it, but now players want free to play and that's how one side of the market is shifting. Of course there will still be companies that charge a sub though.

 

Those USED to be normal, tera, aion, l2 and all the rest went f2p cause the playerbase got fucked. Remember in 2008 during the reviews when everyone thought Aion was the second comming of jesus in the MMO world? The "WoW killer"? And where is it now? Dead and gone with barely 4 NA servers that all have low population and are listed as "recommended". Only WoW gets to pull that jew shit with the b2p+p2p system for some ungodly reason. And i bet my ass that within half a year ESO will be f2p too. The difference is that at least you aren't forced to buy the services in them and can play for a damn long time for free. The only good part about p2p was that it used to serve as an idiot filter. Aion had a decent playerbase, then it went f2p and got filled with retards who can't google their shit.





and nig dun be dissin on muh bns graphics, dat shit good + boob physics and lollies.

 

F2P release day BRs pls

and oh god I was playing Tera when they went F2P as well, tried rerolling on Lake of Tears (new server) because I thought it'd be a fun experience. Nope. "HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE" - general chat 5 minutes in

WoW gets to pull that shit because they have 10 million players and the power of friends, well made database websites, guilds everywhere, etc. is VERY powerful. Its not even about the gameplay anymore as much as the social pull.

 

It's nice to see Nick has extra money to pay hundreds of dollars to his online friends if they write 1000 word essays without vowels for him!

Will he ever run out of money? Stay tuned to find out!

 

So long as there is a demand to slay dragons and monsters, I will have a steady income. Monster hunting is a very lucrative business.

 

You're confusing correlation with causation. The majority didn't leave because of the payment model, but because of the lack of anything to do.. Look at how long it took the first major balance and content updates to touch down: Rift, 1 year; Tera, 8 months; Age of Conan, 2 years; Aion, 1 year; The Old Republic, 1 year; Lord of the Rings online, 1 year. People left because they didn't want to pay for a game that didn't have anything to offer, not because it cost them money. So in that case, yes, there is no reason to continue paying. But when a game is getting ready to drop major content updates (maps, functions, features, balance) within 2 months of release, with devs you can reach in realtime at almost any social networking site, that's something different.


And the Imperial bonus for collector's edition? And? Tell me, which game hasn't given exclusive content for pre ordering? Go ahead, I'll wait. Archeage has a $150 collectors edition that gives an exclusive mount, gear, item chests, and cloak, among others. Warframe had an exclusive aesthetic item, your name tied to a planet, and an exclusive Warframe. Rift, Tera, WoW, etc all give exclusive mounts, pets, and other in game items for collector's edition. So why is it hands across America when ESO does it? 1) The single player fan base is menstruating everywhere because of any kind of fees, and 2) Because almost no one can form a coherent opinion for them self. Their YouTube hero makes whatever video will get them the most views and ad revenue bashing the game for stuff that literally doesn't even exist, and boom, bystander effect. This is apparent by your use of "get rekt", whatever that's supposed to mean.

ESO failed where? By your own admission, you haven't played the game. You haven't even qualified an opinion, so please, shut up and quite being an idiot. And best in industry is no joke. Name one game graphically on par, please. The only ones that even come close are Warframe and Vindictus, except they don't render models at anywhere near the same capacity as ESO. I like how you grasp at straws to make something out of nothing, then get shit on. That's a nice touch.

Come on man...even if you lived only a few miles away from where you work, and you went to the grocery store and casual outings once or twice a week, you would still fill up bi weekly. Do you not work? Is that why you're so outspoken about the fees? It's cool, I understand it's not for everyone, I really do, but don't excoriate it just because you can't take part in it.

In theory, it's free to play, with Warframe being a big offender here. You can buy the Stalker pack to get Hate and Despair, currently 2 of the best weapons in game. Sure you can attempt farming the Stalker, but it's a completely random spawn and no guaranteed drop. I have three max Warframes and one about half way, and I've seen the Stalker three times. The chance of farming is so low, that it might as well not even be considered. I bought the Stalker pack, and there is literally no reason to use anything but Despair. Ever. And that's something you can buy right off the bat. The only game that has gotten some semblance of free to play right is Guild Wars 2.

Seriously, though, I'm not trying to argue with anyone on my phone. All in all, not wanting to pay to play a game is a perfectly fine personal choice, but don't try to publicly project your spite for not playing.

 

First of all I must say that I am very impressed with your post. You have shown skills and abilites far beyond what should be humanly possible. Never before have I or anyone else for that matter ever would have thought that it would be possible to perform such feats and yet you managed to prove us all wrong. So before I begin, I must say congratulations on being able to suck Bethesda's cock while at the same time having your head shoved up your ass. Very amazing, much wow.

No not really. Sure the P2P method was popular for a long time but it's dying off because people are sick and tired of having to pay over and over to play the same game they bought and paid for long ago, and as a result they're cancelling their subscriptions and moving on to other options. If you have a P2P game that's failing but then is suddenly successful when you switch it over to F2P then that's a pretty good sign that people just never wanted to pay those damn fees to begin with. And you can still raise teh money you need to maintain the servers, pay the staff and all that with the F2P model.

Almost all games have bonuses and exclusive content for preordering or for paying extra for the upgraded version true, but those bonuses are usually more along the lines of mounts, gear, items, and other outfits that mostly just have aesthetic bonuses. It would be fine if ESO did that. However, taking out one of the MAIN RACES in the lore and then having it only available for the Collector's Version is not a "bonus". It's a fucking cheapass move to milk more money yet again and to punish players who don't shell out the extra cash.

The Imperial Race has been one of the MAIN RACES, and the main "human" race in the Elder Scrolls series since the beginning. It's not even a new or secret race, but one of the MAIN ONEs. You do not REMOVE a main race and then add it upgraded version and call it a "bonus". Because it's fucking not. And only a fool or exec at Bethesda or ZeniMax would think otherwise.

When it was announced that ESO was in development Bethesda knew that people were expecting something amazing. When they then accounced that it was going to be subscription based then once again that bar should have been raised higher because if you're gonna develop a game on a wildly popular and successful franchise AND charge a monthly fee to play it AFTER charging the initial 60 bucks just to but the game(which most other subscription based companies just offer for free and you pay only the monthly charge, then you damn well better deliver on the goods.

ESO failed at that. Sure the game isn't terrible, but the majority of the reviews out there have it as mediocre at best. Angry Joe isn't the only one. It's been rushed out, and is laden with bugs and errors that should have been fixed before release. Sure patches have since been released and more will come out along with various expansions and updates but the fact remains that an incomplete game was rushed out the door when it wasn't ready just as part of a lame attempt to milk more money from the franchise.

And while I haven't personally play the game, I have watched streams, video reviews, recorded gameplay, and read reviews, so I am more than qualified an opinion. As for the graphics here is a small list of games both old and not yet released of several different genres that have graphics that are on par with if not greater then ESO. In no particular order

Doom 3
Halo 3
Vindictus
The Witcher 2
The Witcher 3
Warframe
Archeage
Rift
Tera
Halo Reach
Halo 4
Gears of War
Black Desert
Guild Wars 2
Bless Online
Ninja Gaiden 2
Ninja Gaiden 3
Dark Souls
Dark Souls 2
Skyrim(especially with mods, OMG SO PRETTY!)
Blade and Soul
Swordsman Online
Revelation
Thief
Dishonored
Kingdom Under Fire 2
Everquest Next
World of Tanks
All those Call of Duty games
All those Battlefield Games
Skyforge
Dragon Age Inquisition
Dragon Sword Online

Now you're the one grasping at straws and getting shit on. Also very impressive how you can manage all that while having your head shoved up your ass while you suck on Bethesda's cock. Most impressive.

Oh look it's this foolish argument of "You don't want to pay all the fees so you're obviously poor and can't afford it". Just because someone doesn't want to pay a bunch of stupid fees over and over doesn't mean they're poor and can't afford. It usually just means THEY DON'T WANT TO WASTE THEIR MONEY ON STUPID FEES! If you disagree with me, then I'm now charging a posting fee on all my threads. If you wish to post on them you must pay me ten dollars per post. I will post my paypal later on and you can send me all the funds. If you don't pay then obviously you are poor and can't afford it.

As for my work. I drive my car that gets 35 miles per gallon about a mile down the street to get to work, where I then drive a truck for coal mines and constuction companies. I drive around a lot AT work but since it's a company truck I'm not the one who has to pay for the diesel fuel and therefore the costs for that don't really concern me except for the monthly bonus I get for keeping fuel costs low.

The grocery store and most of the other places I buy things from are from an outdoor shopping center that is about half a mile from my house. When I need to buy anything from there I just usually stop while on the way back from work so I really don't have to go out of my way. So like I said, unless I take a long trip out of town, I can easily go over a month without needing to fill up on gas. And even if I did have to fill up more often, it's not big deal as I have a decent paying job, and other side businesses that pay well. Of course even if I were making millions I still wouldn't want to spend my money paying a subscription fee for a game that was rushed out and is mediocre at best to a company that just wants to milk as much money as they can from the franchise.

Speaking of grasping straws and getting shit on it appears that you're the one this is happening to you yet again. Interesting how that works out.

Now you're the one grasping at straws yet again and you're gonna get shit on yet again. Yes in Warframe you can buy the Stalker pack, along with many other weapons right off the bat. Yes they are powerful and technically speaking you probably won't "need" any other weapons to go through all the levels in the game. However buying these packs is completely optional and you can get that Stalker weapons, and all other weapons and gear(except for the special event rewards from old events) in the game. What's the problem? With almost any type of RPG style game you can buy the best gear right off the bat on day one.

Hell even if it's not an option in the game itself you can easily go to any major gaming website or forum and outright buy an account with maxed out characters and gear. This very server is a place that has that option. Join up, make a toon, give carl tons of money, and then go about fighting ppl in Aion.

Warframe isn't much different in that regard except that you can get almost everything except for expired event rewards and special promotions in game for free, without paying a cent. With the trading system you can even trade stuff in game for the currency that you used to only get by paying real life money. I know of people that are running around with tons of plat, and all the best gear, and they haven't even donated a single cent. Very few, if any other games have that.

And as for the weapons themselves. With proper leveling and modding you can clear through the game with just the starting weapons. I've cleared out levels on Pluto with just using the Mk-1 Braton, Skana, and Lato. How many other games are out there in which it's possible to be competitive at the late game stages and areas with using only the starter gear? Not very many.

Sure Warframe isn't perfect and DE has made a few dumbass moves in regards to the decisions they made, but all in all they're truly trying to make the best game they can and once again you can get almost everything in game, and clear out all the levels without paying a single cent.

Grasping at straws and getting shat on seems to be a running gag for you now. Many times has it happened to you.

It's cool you want to waste your money on an overpriced game that's mediocre at best. It it is also a fine personal choice, but don't try and come on here and try to defend everything about it and proclaim it to be one of the greatest things ever when everyone knows damn well it has a ton of major flaws and problems.

 

Nice AngryJoeDecoyAccount