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[VOTE] GamezBD Central Market Fix

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by loboram, Mar 7, 2021.

?

Change the state of our Central Market?

  1. Yes

    76.7%
  2. No

    23.3%
  1. loboram

    loboram Respected Member Forum Legend

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    This is going to be the fifth time (or so) I make a thread about this, this time hoping that the community aren't as lackluster as they seem.

    How To Fix Central Market:
    1. Make default Price, when selling an item, automatically Maximum Price

    2. Increase Minimum and Maximum Prices of ALL Special Gathered Materials*

    3. Make the Price of Player Crafter Items equal to Materials used Plus a creation bonus**

    4. Increase Minimum Prices of all Processed Items to reflect Price benefit of Processing***


    *Special Gathered Materials; Things like Traces of..., Powders of..., Fruits of..., Water Gathered, Very Rare Drops/Materials (Mount Materials and the like)
    https://ibb.co/Rc40Z1d
    https://ibb.co/fvK1JV0
    https://ibb.co/8zmJZX8
    https://ibb.co/5TDcg2g
    https://ibb.co/HBYH6PM
    https://ibb.co/kgHYJgy
    https://ibb.co/hBRGZVp
    https://ibb.co/zNzN3B1
    https://ibb.co/7CkyqHd
    This is a LOT more difficult to quantify, since suddenly it seems as if Materials can be collected at an insane rate, because about 6+ months ago, there was nearly No Trace of Death on the Central Market, and now there is about half a million of them, which just seems as if it has been collected through a bug abuse. However most of these materials, are usually in demand and in low quantity, because they aren't easy to come by. When you use a worker empire, you get roughly 1-3 of these materials per hour. Which means that you are going to wait for a long time in order to get around 100 of these materials, so in order to make it a profitable endeavour, for players to gather these materials and sell them, my suggestion is to increase the minimum worht of them.

    **There HAS to be an incentive for players to craft items, whether it is for themselves or for selling them on the Central Market, so a "creation bonus" of around 30% would be very useful
    https://ibb.co/5FHs2bX
    https://ibb.co/mrjSKJd
    https://ibb.co/XJpvwBt
    https://ibb.co/W20nz8p
    https://ibb.co/pWLCndM
    Math;
    Steel Combat Champron = 123.000
    Steel 3x 7.450 = 22.350
    Oil of Fortitude 2x 36.000 = 72.000
    Powder of Crevice 10x 10.800 = 108.000
    Black Stone Powder 15x 2.390 = 35.850
    = 22.350 + 72.000 + 108.000 + 35.850 = 260.550 + (30%) = 338.715 / 123.000 = 2,753 times income NOT gotten as things are now.

    ***Items that are used in processing shouldn't be more valuable than the processed items created
    https://ibb.co/4SV243B
    https://ibb.co/ynfM1Ps
    Math;
    Timber x5 (3.160) = Planks x1 (1.730)
    = 15.800 / 1.730 = 9,133 times losses incurred by current system.

    There is PLENTY of room for more suggestions, and although I am perfectly aware of how much more work this will put on our community database manager, it WILL make players come back to see how much better GamezBD is in comparison to the boring and very expensive Retail-BDO-servers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  2. ShadoweCZ

    ShadoweCZ Loner by choice

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    its true taht some prices dont make sense .. .mainly for elixirs (mainly party versions) where for example base green elixir is 200k, blue is 550k and party version of blue is 30k
    in thoose instances it makes ZERO sense, but it is set that way because noone sells/buys those so the price stays at the base value

    and there are other nonsenses like traps that require herbal poisons, lucky tools cheaper than the base ones etc
     
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  3. bigtablecloth

    bigtablecloth Getting there

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    As long as we have seasonal, the market will never be stabled. Time filled stones killed the economy. People are getting free failstacks to enhance pen gear/accessories. Gl fixing. Rip gamezbd.
     
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  4. Nereus

    Nereus New Member

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    time filled stones made it worse but the market has been like this way before season servers
     
  5. ShadoweCZ

    ShadoweCZ Loner by choice

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    enhancing PEN accessories on 50 FS ? no thank you
    like it surely has effect but in my opinion its positive, cause with FS prices go down menaing new ppl can get PEN gear easier, you can achieve upgrades easier, the game feels more rewarding and you can focus your blackstones in other areas than just FS,
    also enhancing/failstacking is generaly seen as the worst part of BDO, and thats the reason that many players quit game and come here to GameZ.... and me personaly i play alot of characters so gearing them all is still kinda hard :)

    like it realy only affects boss gear prices in my opinion, you still need liek 30+ bil per piece to get BIS accessories
     
  6. excelis

    excelis New Member

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    on season you can make more money then akman, hystya or kratuga , this is not ok !
    and market should be like this : material price + craft price
    they could make a npc to buy al thins you gather at minimum price
     
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  7. Ikbenrik

    Ikbenrik New Member

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    I think this idea looks a lot like my idea that you left a comment on 30 minutes before making this poll while telling me it's a bad idea xD

    Idea number 1 setting default to max price is a bad idea I think because many people want to sell fast, meaning the players will just always put it manually to lower price and most likely undercut someone else.
    Long story short the developers will have done a lot of work for nothing.
    If you put it on same price as lowest price like I suggested people are more likely to accept it or put it on the medium price that the item is actually worth on the description at that moment.

    2nd idea to increase the price range can be good but it also means it becomes easier for people to transfer money between accounts.
    If you would do a request to only increase the hard cap range of maximum price and minimum price (when you see the arrows indicating the price of an item cant go higher or lower) but keep the range of the normal min and max price the same I would say it would have been a good idea.

    3rd idea you need to consider items become less usefull when you craft them, so yes some items are priced too low for their actual worth but in some cases their price is too high for what an item is worth.
    like items you use for boosting a certain lifeskill, lets take an example of essence of liquor you can mass produce these and even while the price is lower then the cost to make them they are still sitting on the market because it's mainly used to boost your cooking.
    This is nearly impossible and straight up too much work for a developer to check and make custom prices for every single craftable item and should just be managed by the current algorythm of the marketplace and could be fixed better by the increase of the Hard cap of the lowest and max price.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  8. ShadoweCZ

    ShadoweCZ Loner by choice

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    Who said anythig about free PENs ? please go find BIS items for free and then talk nonsense ...
    you still have to grind bosses to get bases, cause there are no dim treess on MP for example, you still need FS and Mems to enhance, and you are stil ldealing with RNG where i have failed 10x in row with 75% success chance. Where is anything of that free ? and if i want to get "FREE" PENs on my alts its still only boss gear and even that is like 10+bil just for armor ... is 10 bil FREE for new player that cannot farm Stars End yet ??
    and if i want BIS armor its like 50 bil (considering we will get blacstar shoes) just for armor
    debotia neckalce PEN is 36 bil alone

    im just saing its easier to get basic gear to grind and stuff, full PEN boss gear and weapons still dont stand a chance to anyone that has propper accessories and full blackstar or combination of that


    1) agree i do that myself :)
    2) i hope we were talking about the hardcap min/max prices so items can move as high/low as it needs to go
    3) just fix elixir prices and siege weapon workshop products
     
  9. loboram

    loboram Respected Member Forum Legend

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    How exactly does Seasonal Servers have ANY influence on the Central Market? Timefilledstones aren't marketable, so once again I am quite curious, also the first set of Tuvala gear you can get as a seasonal character isn't top notch, and you are still quite a long way from being able to do all the content, mainly because the Tuvala gear's Accessories are pretty shaite.

    One last thing; "RIP GamezBD"? You do know that it is against the forum rules to spread false information right?
    "Money"? Do you mean Silver, the in-game currency? If so, please say that instead of money.

    Once again, I am completely baffled how there are players who agree with each other, that the seasonal servers somehow have anything to do with the Central Market?

    IF it is indeed true, that players can earn more Silver using the Seasonal Server, then it is even more obvious that the income of Silver here on GamezBD is much higher than the current Central Market is built for.

    If so, then it is completely clear, that an increase in Item Prices on our Central Market would make good sense.
    Hmmm, for someone who was being all like "you hurt my feelings", you do seem to be taking that out on me right here and now pal. So consider that the next time you feel like someone is being mean towards you.

    Well here's an answer to your reply;

    Yeah, I did indeed make this thread right after I read you thread, because (as I said) I have posted at least 5 threads so far, about the major problem with the Central Market, and how it could be improoved (how it sounds).
    Sure my initial suggestions were quite "over the top" in coding and maintainance, but as I have gotten a bit of insight into coding and databases now, I think it isn't a way too big ask.

    1. "Selling fast" doesn't even factor into how a Market SHOULD function, also the main premise of this game is the way it has been designed: Make players play for months if not years.
    By Forcing the players to make decisions about what price to post their items on the market, instead of just making it the "lowest" available price, it would make players consider the worth of their items versus the time they would have to wait for the items to get sold. Because as you can plainly see now, almost ALL the current Central Market prices are at their absolute minimum, and almost no items are being sold. Unless of course you look at the mainstream "meta" items, that are pretty much always in stock and being sold in bunches.

    2. Not quite sure how "transfering money between accounts" would be easier? Silver is the in-game currency, and I suppose that you are referring to Real-Money trading, which unfortunately is allowed in some instances, although it is strictly forbidden in the server-rules. If you buy something in the webstore, you are allowed to sell it on the Market, so that is indeed a way to do Real-Money trade.
    Again not quite sure what you mean by "If you would do a request to only increase the hard cap range of maximum price and minimum price (when you see the arrows indicating the price of an item cant go higher or lower) but keep the range of the normal min and max price the same I would say it would have been a good idea.", because you aren't actually saying why?

    3. "...you need to consider items become less usefull when you craft them..." Sorry but I think you aren't too familiar with the concept I am trying to bring forth here, because to me this just sounds completely wrong.
    When you put in the time and effort to craft an item, and then sell it to other players, you have basically done all the work for them. You got the materials and crafted the item, so you should get a bonus income for that alone, since the players that buy the readymade items aren't doing any work themselves. Having items on the Central Market at Lower prices than the Materials used to craft them is insanely counterintuitive, not to mention detrimental to the overall economy of the market.

    Lastly I do agree with you, that the work involved in the database upkeep, is indeed great at the best of times, and to increase that is not a good thing when the Developers are swamped with bug fixes and updates.
    However it isn't really that big a deal, since you CAN sort a database into categories, which means that it takes a lot of work ONCE to make this happen, and afterwards you can make many more changes as you see fit, because with every database update, the categories stay the same, but the ID's and content change.

    Sure you would have to update the categories everytime a new marketplace item is introduced, but being a numbers-list-making nerd myself, I would love to present a vision for how it could work somewhat seamlessly for the development team.

    In any case @Ikbenrik you sure did a good job, of trying to "shoot down" my suggestion, I can only imagine that it is a direct response to my reply to your thread, but I sure do hope that we can work this out as mature adults from now on, and I personally see no reason to escalate the conflict.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  10. Mocks

    Mocks New Member

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    @loboram I believe people are complaining about seasonal crashing the marketplace because with the timefilled stones, converting those to FS, the need for armor/weapon stones has gone down.
     
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  11. loboram

    loboram Respected Member Forum Legend

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    AHA! Now that makes a lot more sense, although it is merely two items on the market though, Weapon/Armour Blackstones...so it doesn't actually count as a market crashing thing...but at least I get it now. Thanks :)
     
  12. Ikbenrik

    Ikbenrik New Member

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    Yes it was indeed a reply on the thread I made and no I wasn't trying to shoot down your suggestion, I think we want the same thing which is a better economy for this server and we probably think more alike then we realize we just explain it in a different way and misunderstood eachother.
    Also I agree I should have explained the ideas and the why's more thoroughly in my initial thread as well as my last post here, gave it a quick glance while at work.
    So ill give it another attempt and will also answer your questions from the other thread here so we don't have to keep going back and forth. =)

    From the other thread
    First of all you noticed I haven't been active much on the forums that is becuase I usually just dmed Kolka on discord and only went to the forums when he asked me to.
    Since he updated his status to "emergency only" I only dm him for emergency things and try to do the rest by forums nowadays.

    1. What do you mean when you say "lowest current price"?
    I meant the lowest "Listed" on the marketplace so if for example a base Deboraka Necklace has a range right now of 650m-700m and someone will list it on 680m the next person that is listing a base Debo neck will by default list it on 675M unless he changes this himself. So my suggestion of change was to put it on same price as lowest listed which in this case would put it also on 680m by default instead.

    2. How else would you think the economy in general could be improoved (how it sounds) upon?
    This is a tough question I see many people undercutting eachother but there isn't really a way you can really prevent this other then giving them a suggestion.
    Things like the Golden event and Time filled stones can be both good and bad for the economy id say, my knowledge about this isn't that great so I can only see how this has it's pros and cons but can't determine what is better.
    The good thing about golden event and selling time filled stones is people have an additional flux of money to spend and use in the economy.
    The bad side is people are getting money but they didn't do anything in the first place to contribute to the market in terms of items.
    Please correct me if im wrong (which I probably am) but getting a lot of money from golden backpacks and time filled stones can be compared to someone making fake money and pumping it into the economy since they spend money that came out of nowhere (not any item they sold towards other players).


    1. "Selling fast" doesn't even factor into how a Market SHOULD function,
    You are right but people should still be free to choose for what price they sell an item for, unfortunately there are many impatient people on the server that just want money now even if it means only recieving 50% of the value and often it doesn't even make the item sell faster but the seller just has the feeling that it does.
    I also think that if you would always suggest the maximum price people will just ignore it and undercut someone else and if you use the other suggestion people are more likely to just accept it but I could be totally wrong.
    Also did you mean the default should be the maximum available price or the highest listed price currently on the market? Because I believe right now if there is no item on the market it will go to maximum by default unless you change it.

    2. Not quite sure how "transfering money between accounts" would be easier?
    Since it is breaking the rules I don't want to get in detail about this on open forums since it can inspire people to use it.

    If you would do a request to only increase the hard cap range of maximum price and minimum price (when you see the arrows indicating the price of an item cant go higher or lower) but keep the range of the normal min and max price the same I would say it would have been a good idea.", because you aren't actually saying why?
    This is again for about breaking the rules making it easier for people to cheat ingame, if you want a further explanation about why I said this please add me on discord Rik#8905

    3. "...you need to consider items become less usefull when you craft them..."
    For most items you are right about this but some items have higher value for the base item then the crafted item and here is why.
    You say you put work in something so an item should have more value and in many cases you are completely right.
    Some items however are used to Boost your exp and are less usefull then the items you used to craft it with since you could have used those for other more usefull items.
    For example some easy to make food products that nobody uses or for example heating a bottle of sea water for salt.
    A bottle of sea water is like 1k while salt is only 20 silver i think? So in this case either the bottle of sea water should become less then salt or the salt price should increase since I put effort into heating a bottle of sea water to boost my processing exp.
    Again for the majority of the items you are completely right, there are some exceptions here and there for items that people craft for exp and accepting the loss of money for fast or easy exp.

    Sorry about the HUGE wall of text but I hope I am more clear, in my opinion both our suggestions are better then how the marketplace works currently and id be happy if they picked either one of them.
     
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  13. Mocks

    Mocks New Member

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    Honestly, the issue is everyone wants to buy their stuff. Nobody wants to actually farm. I dunno how many people play on NA server, but you can just tell nobody is really farming to sell stuff on the market. It's instantly bought out. There are not enough players to meet the demand. I feel like cooking/farming/gathering/etc. would need to be wayyyy more lucrative so people will actually farm, and not just sit around waiting to buy a piece of gear.

    Or, bring back the caphras selling. Honestly, it shouldn't have gone away. I don't know how long it was on the server for, was on it before I started playing, so all the people that got to reap the rewards for it were basically set.
     
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  14. bigtablecloth

    bigtablecloth Getting there

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    With seasonal...I don't even play my main anymore and I have maxed out gear beside vells heart. I make more money playing on seasonal grinding marie caves for time filled stones to exchange for 40fs and just buy base accessories from market then enhance for profit. Made 13x pen deboreka in one day during enhance weekend. Say or you want, I don't care...I made billions of silver with seasonal. Will never play my main as long as we have seasonal. You can say the same to all the other players. Seasonal is meant for new players but on gamezbd, we have so high of a drop rate that time filled stones are just too good to miss out on. When I said I have not played my main ever since seasonal is out, that says alot about the state of the game while having seasonal. Should make seasonal characters can only play on seasonal server and only those who have not played for more than a month can be allowed to play in seasonal server. Just like Olivia server on retail. This is the only way...gamezbd developer...do this please.
     
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  15. ludiq

    ludiq New Member

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    As a gatherer ,the only item i have hard time to sell is hard black crystal shards ....currently on EU they are around 90k on min price and slowly continue to build up.Make them concentrate also not solve the problem.And as bigtablecloth explained,ppl not need them to build failstacks,so their stock will continue to increase .Solution could be to exchange them for something at Kolka npc,something that is need ,so to avoid nerfing season servers (gamez will lose a good chunk of players,both new or old,if seasons are nerfed)Otherwise lifeskillers will be forced to use them or delete a good amount of silver per hour (normally at 2k mastery you got around 120 hards for a hour,even at min price thats 76.8 mil silver ).
     
  16. bigtablecloth

    bigtablecloth Getting there

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    No, gamezbd won't lose players if seasonal gets nerfed, it just force players to go grind on their main. That is a good thing because why geared up a character if you don't play? This way players can go back to grinding end game areas, tyros, ollun, ash forest, thornwood...
     
  17. loboram

    loboram Respected Member Forum Legend

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    Look I really do not care about players bragging about how good they are at making Silver, because I am not a mindless mainstream-follower, not accusing you of being one just saying.

    I, and many other players, play computer games for fun and enjoyment, not because we want to brag to all our friends; "Look at me I am SO good at a computer game, so you should respect/like/look-up-to me". Again, not implying that you are like this at all.

    What I do not understand is; You say that you exchange the TFS (TimeFilledStones) for +40 FailStacks, but you also say that you gather loads of Silver, in order to get the base Accessories. So my question is; You STILL have to get Silver in order to make your plans work out. You also STILL need to get higher FailStacks if you are aiming to get PEN accessories. So why would that be easier or better to get on the Seasonal Server? Also, you do know that the Seasonal Character Automatically gets promoted at the end of the season right?

    One last thing, I am not trying to mock you or make fun of you, I am merely curious as well as interested in what you mean by the last sentence; "You can say the same to all the other players." What is it I can say to the other players?

    Hmmm, just to make things easier, please look at the answer given above, and then extrapolate the question; Why would players Not need to build FailStacks on GamezBD?

    Why would it be so terrible, if players Had to use the items that they gathered themselves?

    Last thing, the whole getting an NPC to buy/exchange, or some automated Central Market buy-out system, WOULDN'T solve the overall problem. It may be due to lack of interest that many players just rapidly click the items when selling on the Central Market, and if that is the case, then it only stands to reason that making the default price Maximum, would be an awesome change to the whole GamezBD economic situation.

    However, if it is a handful of players, who are deliberately screwing with the GamezBD Central Market economy, then we should try to put a stop to it.

    IF sadly it is just because most players are interested in selling items AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, then the problem cannot be fixed as they would mainly think that the lowest priced items are the ones to sell the quickest. Which is Exactly why the GamezBD Central Market is in an utter detrimental state.

    I still hope that there is a somewhat simple solution, on the part of the development team. Some awesome algorithm that can at the very least, make the Central Market make a tiny bit of sense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
  18. ludiq

    ludiq New Member

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    Simple - cos when you get so easy 40 fs ,all these stones are sitting in market,unsold.
    Why ppl prefer to sell,instead to use - also simple ...they like me trying to minimize the impact of RNG in that game ,they prefer to buy already enhanced stuff ;)
     
  19. loboram

    loboram Respected Member Forum Legend

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    Alright I kinda get it, but those +40 FailStacks aren't going to carry you through the enhancing of high leveled items, infact as soon as you hit DUO, then +40FS doesn't do much. So you would Still need to get higher enhancement materials, and to do that you still need Blackstones and Blackstone Shards. Sure you might be able to gather those yourself, but there are SO many things you could be using your enhancing materials for, such as;
    1. Mount gear (also useful for FailStacking even if you just sell them afterwards)
    2. Hunting Rifles (even if you just sell them afterwards)
    3. Fishing Gear (even if you just sell it afterwards)
    4. Enhancing Boss gear to get those really high FailStacks (even if you just sell them afterwards)
    5. For various items and materials that need the Blackstones for crafting

    For the second part, I sure get why you would want to buy already enhanced PEN gear, because it can be frustrating to enhance gear. BUT you were talking about Gathering to begin with, and that is where the question came from; Why wouldn't you want to use what you gain?
    The uses of gathered materials certainly doesn't depend on the RNG system, and can yield quite a good income of Silver.
     
  20. Ayvel

    Ayvel ἔσσεται ἦμαρ Forum Legend

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    Hello, everyone! I am glad to see you exchanging opinions about the game! I am here to remind you that if you want to express your liking towards a comment you can do it by pressing Like on the right bottom of the comment you agree with. Comments with a single emoji or a +1 will be deleted, not because your support to other players is not welcome but because having too many of them ends up spamming the thread. Sorry for being a party pooper but rules are unfortunately rules. :eggface: Have fun, guys and girls! ;)
     
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